some kind of snark faery (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
arcanetrivia) wrote2007-11-18 11:47 pm
arcanetrivia) wrote2007-11-18 11:47 pm
Entry tags:
hmm, these righteous anger robes are beginning to get a bit snug.
A reply I made in ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
rattlesnakeroot's journal about the indignity of what was left out of the extras on the OotP DVD. Italics are some her own words, and some the article she was quoting from, with no formatting distinction on my part, so don't get hung up on that.
---
First, a dose of perspective, for myself as much as any other serious Snape fan. As much as it becomes clear to anyone who really takes a good look that Snape is a plotline linchpin in the series, he's not the main character and he's not the end-all: that's Harry. Done and done.
That said, I'm tempted to say he's done a worse disservice in this film than in DH, and that's saying something. He is a plotline linchpin. Without his actions there might not even be a Harry, through more than one possible route. SWM is essential to understanding a good deal of just what the hell is going on with Harry's life, IMO. And I've said it before, I'll say it again: without backstory like that, the movies become Harry-Potter-flavoured action flicks, which is a shame.
fans rejoiced at the sight of Young Snape
Yes, I find myself doing that on a daily basis. ;)
another case of the WB misunderstanding what the fans really want.
Does this touch on the whole "fan entitlement" issue, a little? It can be argued that the films are much, much more a commercial enterprise than an artistic endeavour, and thus more logically beholden to the people who will foot the bill. But I doubt that it is us picky, snarky, thoughtful Snapefen they are worried about disappointing. Where is the box-office buying power: with us, or with tweens and young teens who go with their whole families?
it still escapes the reader just why more of the dominant Umbridge is needed.
[warning: overuse of the phrase "in and of itself" ahead. I didn't edit this well before I clicked "post comment."]
I don't mind more of that in and of itself. I loved/hated Umbridge. She didn't match my own vision physically speaking, but she was a great interpretation of the character. So seeing more of her in extras, okay, fine, bring it on. There's surely still room for other stuff. The extras are a whole second disc, right? That's hours in and of itself, and deleted scenes are usually no more than a couple of minutes. Much as I would drool myself dehydrated over a SWM scene that was a short film in and of itself, surely there was room to fit a few minutes of what you did film onto the disc?
(Maybe they're holding out on four-disc editions like they issued for Lord of the Rings.)
[here's a break between journal entry and referenced article, if you didn't read the links above.]
"One of the things that people, even non-'Potter' fans, love is the clarity of the films."
Um, what? With OotP, many Potter fans I know were disappointed, and non-Potter fans were often very confused. It is not "clear" to leave out so much of the book. It's okay; you can make a longer movie. People will stand for it! (Again I point out LotR.) In this case, I'm sure a lot of clarification could have been crammed into even an additional 15-20 minutes, since you can say a lot with a visual detail that may take several sentences of description on the page.
Harry goes to Dumbledore's office but stops short of destroying the headmaster's things (as he does in the book) in his grief over Sirius' death.
OMG why? Seeing Harry smash delicate silver instruments would have been cool! And a chance to flex your sexy CG muscles! heheh.
Also, drama. Although maybe they felt that in a film sense things should be winding down by this point, and not building up more excitement.
In another scene, which had been chopped into a montage of her examinations of her fellow teachers, Umbridge interrupts and badgers Sybil Trelawney while she attempts to lead her Divination class.
This I have less of a problem with. I don't think the complete text of all these scenes is necessary to make the point in the film. As Yates notes, it would slow things down. Just little vignettes gets the laugh and the audience ire against Umbridge, and you can move on. (Although I must say Snape's steals the show here. ;) )
[Trelawney] barely pays attention during Umbridge's speech at the beginning of the school year about the changes about to be made on campus, as you can see during the extended shot of her eating.
Boorrrriiinnnng. This merited inclusion as an extra? This should seriously have been left on the cutting room floor. (Or bit bin, given digital editing practices.)
"I've also got a lovely moment between Umbridge and Filch after the fireworks," Yates said, "where her hair is on fire and Filch tries to extinguish it.
Hrmph. I don't think this helps add impact and coolness back into the "Fred and George give Umbridge the finger" scene, which is one of the best in the whole series and one of the few where my *koff* dour, reserved manner was shattered into a whoop of "awright"! (Though that shot of Flitwick was made of win.)
"We had a lovely actress play Lily," Yates said. "And we may bring her back.
For the stuff in DH? Hm. She'll be a bit older by then, won't she? Still, she might work.
This is my way of saying you had better include at least 65% of "The Prince's Tale" or there will be retribution. Bloody, terrible, retribution. *fingers wand menacingly*
*koff* Again, though. I can see why they might cut this down. In terms of the action, the later bits where Severus is conversing with Dumbledore are more important. The bits with Lily lend depth of emotion and food for thought, and who needs that crap?!
(oh, who am I kidding. there is never a closing tag on my sarcasm.)
But by introducing Lily and the Lily/Snape plot, that back story, we complicated it too much.
WHAT
Has this person read the books? "Complicated"? Actually I should pick on "too much". Yes, it's complicated. But way to denigrate your audience. I'm not sure who, exactly, you were aiming this movie at, but adults should definitely be able to grasp it, and children, tweens and teenagers alike are also far more perceptive than you may be giving them credit for. (In fact, maybe even moreso than adults in many cases, who have started to blank out many parts of their memories because you can only hold so much in your head at one time. Please God, can I have a RAM upgrade?)
Surely somebody will wave an editing wand over this footage for the eventual "Deathly Hallows" DVD; by the time moviegoers learn how Snape really felt about Lily, they'll want as much of her as they can get.
As much of HER?
*fume*
(sorry, was that overdramatic? heh.)
The "danger" is the two-star rating for what should have been a five-star DVD, and I'm sure you can understand that.
Preach it, sista.
rattlesnakeroot's journal about the indignity of what was left out of the extras on the OotP DVD. Italics are some her own words, and some the article she was quoting from, with no formatting distinction on my part, so don't get hung up on that.---
First, a dose of perspective, for myself as much as any other serious Snape fan. As much as it becomes clear to anyone who really takes a good look that Snape is a plotline linchpin in the series, he's not the main character and he's not the end-all: that's Harry. Done and done.
That said, I'm tempted to say he's done a worse disservice in this film than in DH, and that's saying something. He is a plotline linchpin. Without his actions there might not even be a Harry, through more than one possible route. SWM is essential to understanding a good deal of just what the hell is going on with Harry's life, IMO. And I've said it before, I'll say it again: without backstory like that, the movies become Harry-Potter-flavoured action flicks, which is a shame.
fans rejoiced at the sight of Young Snape
Yes, I find myself doing that on a daily basis. ;)
another case of the WB misunderstanding what the fans really want.
Does this touch on the whole "fan entitlement" issue, a little? It can be argued that the films are much, much more a commercial enterprise than an artistic endeavour, and thus more logically beholden to the people who will foot the bill. But I doubt that it is us picky, snarky, thoughtful Snapefen they are worried about disappointing. Where is the box-office buying power: with us, or with tweens and young teens who go with their whole families?
it still escapes the reader just why more of the dominant Umbridge is needed.
[warning: overuse of the phrase "in and of itself" ahead. I didn't edit this well before I clicked "post comment."]
I don't mind more of that in and of itself. I loved/hated Umbridge. She didn't match my own vision physically speaking, but she was a great interpretation of the character. So seeing more of her in extras, okay, fine, bring it on. There's surely still room for other stuff. The extras are a whole second disc, right? That's hours in and of itself, and deleted scenes are usually no more than a couple of minutes. Much as I would drool myself dehydrated over a SWM scene that was a short film in and of itself, surely there was room to fit a few minutes of what you did film onto the disc?
(Maybe they're holding out on four-disc editions like they issued for Lord of the Rings.)
[here's a break between journal entry and referenced article, if you didn't read the links above.]
"One of the things that people, even non-'Potter' fans, love is the clarity of the films."
Um, what? With OotP, many Potter fans I know were disappointed, and non-Potter fans were often very confused. It is not "clear" to leave out so much of the book. It's okay; you can make a longer movie. People will stand for it! (Again I point out LotR.) In this case, I'm sure a lot of clarification could have been crammed into even an additional 15-20 minutes, since you can say a lot with a visual detail that may take several sentences of description on the page.
Harry goes to Dumbledore's office but stops short of destroying the headmaster's things (as he does in the book) in his grief over Sirius' death.
OMG why? Seeing Harry smash delicate silver instruments would have been cool! And a chance to flex your sexy CG muscles! heheh.
Also, drama. Although maybe they felt that in a film sense things should be winding down by this point, and not building up more excitement.
In another scene, which had been chopped into a montage of her examinations of her fellow teachers, Umbridge interrupts and badgers Sybil Trelawney while she attempts to lead her Divination class.
This I have less of a problem with. I don't think the complete text of all these scenes is necessary to make the point in the film. As Yates notes, it would slow things down. Just little vignettes gets the laugh and the audience ire against Umbridge, and you can move on. (Although I must say Snape's steals the show here. ;) )
[Trelawney] barely pays attention during Umbridge's speech at the beginning of the school year about the changes about to be made on campus, as you can see during the extended shot of her eating.
Boorrrriiinnnng. This merited inclusion as an extra? This should seriously have been left on the cutting room floor. (Or bit bin, given digital editing practices.)
"I've also got a lovely moment between Umbridge and Filch after the fireworks," Yates said, "where her hair is on fire and Filch tries to extinguish it.
Hrmph. I don't think this helps add impact and coolness back into the "Fred and George give Umbridge the finger" scene, which is one of the best in the whole series and one of the few where my *koff* dour, reserved manner was shattered into a whoop of "awright"! (Though that shot of Flitwick was made of win.)
"We had a lovely actress play Lily," Yates said. "And we may bring her back.
For the stuff in DH? Hm. She'll be a bit older by then, won't she? Still, she might work.
This is my way of saying you had better include at least 65% of "The Prince's Tale" or there will be retribution. Bloody, terrible, retribution. *fingers wand menacingly*
*koff* Again, though. I can see why they might cut this down. In terms of the action, the later bits where Severus is conversing with Dumbledore are more important. The bits with Lily lend depth of emotion and food for thought, and who needs that crap?!
(oh, who am I kidding. there is never a closing tag on my sarcasm.)
But by introducing Lily and the Lily/Snape plot, that back story, we complicated it too much.
WHAT
Has this person read the books? "Complicated"? Actually I should pick on "too much". Yes, it's complicated. But way to denigrate your audience. I'm not sure who, exactly, you were aiming this movie at, but adults should definitely be able to grasp it, and children, tweens and teenagers alike are also far more perceptive than you may be giving them credit for. (In fact, maybe even moreso than adults in many cases, who have started to blank out many parts of their memories because you can only hold so much in your head at one time. Please God, can I have a RAM upgrade?)
Surely somebody will wave an editing wand over this footage for the eventual "Deathly Hallows" DVD; by the time moviegoers learn how Snape really felt about Lily, they'll want as much of her as they can get.
As much of HER?
*fume*
(sorry, was that overdramatic? heh.)
The "danger" is the two-star rating for what should have been a five-star DVD, and I'm sure you can understand that.
Preach it, sista.
no subject
no subject
no subject
To prove your point about the films being confusing for anyone who hasn't read the books, several people at work asked me about the third movie after they had seen it because there were many things they didn't understand. Case in point.
The second movie is the longest (I think), yet they couldn't make the longer books at least as long as that movie? :p
The movies are just entertainment and "filler" to me. They don't compare to the books, and while I am not as inclined to getting upset about what they've cut (I got quite upset about all the stuff they cut in Prisoner, especially the backstory on Snape and the Marauders and Snape's tirade at the end), it still worries me that they will cut too much from the next two movies.
You're right - they had better have a huge chunk of "The Prince's Tale" in movie seven! I feel like people who just watch the films are going to be REALLY confused about Snape when he just (surprise!) kills Dumbledore in this next one, and if you just go by the movies, there's not really a lot of indication that Snape might be evil. It's so briefly mentioned that he was a Death Eater, and all his backstory is glossed over. He's just made to look like a mean teacher in the movies.